Apr 13, 2007

For anyone who thinks Pagans and Discordians get along...

Now I am not normally one for internet drama, unless its particularly funny, but this is a special situation and deserves some scrutiny.

Now, I've been on the internet, in a regular sense and as a Discordian, for about 3 years now. And each time I have tried, as a Discordian, to interact with Pagans, it has failed miserably except for a very few exceptional people.

First off there was the jack-offs at the now defunct Obsidian Mirror. To be fair, it was only really two admins out of the three who were the real problem and neither of them was the owner of the site or the forum in question (the forum was hosted elsewhere), but it was a flavour of what was to come.

Next was Mystic Wicks. A few of us from PrincipiaDiscordia.com decided to help out Verthaine with some work he was doing over there. At first, it all went well and we were integrating well with, I thought, the majority of Pagans there. Boy was I wrong. The owner and his minions came down on us like a ton of bricks, pretty much based on our irreligion and refusal to be impressed by their admin powers. However, there is much more to that and if you want the full story you can sign up at Eris Bar and Grill to read up on the events.

After that, a few of us became suspicious. It seemed like most times we tried to interact in a non-hostile/O:MF way with any other religion, we became public enemy number one. Kind of flattering, in a way, but not when you really have no ill intent. I suppose it just goes to prove how threatening our irreligion is to conventional order, even of supposedly open and permissive religions with a history of persecution (both real and imagined).

So, I was thinking of giving Paganism at large another chance and went over to Spiritual Forums. At first it looked good, maybe a bit strict with speech for my liking (no swearing etc) but otherwise fine. However, after I was asked to explain my religion by a forum regular, my links to POEE and Subgenius.com were deleted for being "commercial" and "mocking real religions". I was also informed that Discordianism was not a real religion and that if I insisted it was, I would end up banned (you wont find this thread by the way, it has been deleted, because it shows the admins breaking their own rules).

I tried to reason with the admin, with sensible debate. However, all Discordian threads were locked down and we were told to go discuss them in the Lounge, which is sort of the main chat area of the forum. Anyone who did so, however, got banned. I tried to mediate with a PM to one of the moderators, however when I tried to log on the next day, I was informed I had been banned for the High Crime of being a Discordian. A proxy got me back on, where I found this lovely little message awaiting me:
To all SubGenius, Pastafarian, Last Thursdayism and Discordians, you are not welcome at this forum, and any new members suspected of being such will be banned.

I know this is harsh and drastic, but if this is left unchecked, they could very well destroy this forum. I hope our long term and regular members understand the need for such action.
Now, I know I was foolish for trusting the benevolence of such an obvious Greyface, but even I didn't expect this harsh a response. There was some trolling, I admit, but it was in response to the unfair banning of several people, who had the audacity to stand on their hind legs and act like they had a spine.

To date, they have banned every new member, claiming they are a Discordian, or abusive, or without any reason at all.

I think that its fair to say that interaction with the vast majority of Pagan religions is now pretty much impossible for me to do. These jackasses should know better, but their CoN programming means when they get hit by a bigger religion, they find someone smaller and weirder to retaliate against. Predictable, really. To quote the Good Reverend Roger on such matters:
I am getting just a little sick and tired of being the whipping boy for every two bit wannabe "Pagan" that comes down the pike. It occurs to me also that I really don't feel the need to keep patiently explaining things to assholes who have had their minds made up by their masters.

I think I've really had enough of their shit, and it's high time I did something about it. Indeed, I think it's high time I SHIT MY HATE. Never liked those fuckers, anyway....Sorry, I guess I'm just an asshole. Or even a Discordian. A badwrong Discordian that really doesn't feel the need to put up with their bullshit, anymore. I never signed up to be anyone's fucking doormat, and I'll be damned if I'm going to put up with this...

The fucking Wiccans want to hate on us? Okay, no sweat. But don't be shocked when I hate right back. Fuck them AND their hypocritical fucking "karma rule".
That was written after MW, but it still applies. I have no problem if you want to debate or discuss or even not believe in Discordianism. Thats not the issue. What is the issue is that the Pagan world seems to need a new whipping boy now Christianity has some teeth again and Islam is even more crazy. Sorry, this religion wasn't made for persecution. And unlike certain Pagans, we don't whine and try to be morally superior, or find a smaller religion to pick on. We fight back.

If you do want some sites where Discordians are welcomed, but not in the majority, then I suggest either Mystic Awakenings (where the owners are friendly and there is a Discordian/Subgenii mod) or Questing Spirits, where the owner herself is very much a Chaote.

But as for the rest of you, you may wanna watch out. This latest incident has pretty much proved Discordianism cannot seem to coexist with elitist windbags and two bit wannabes. I think its safe to say in the future, we wont be as nice or as forgiving as we have been...


Felix Faustus Nothus said...

What really makes me laugh and kinda insults me is that they don't think discordianism is a "real" religion.

Suppose thats why there are no "real" discordians I suppose.

Episkopos Cain said...

Well, I prefer the term "irreligion". People believe in it, but not in the same way as a hierarchical religious structure. Its a cross between faith and philosophy, I suppose.

Pirate Dan said...

Well let's agree that Discordians and other pagan peoples often don't play well together on message boards. I think the nature of message boards lends itself readily to caustic reactions like this. I'm sure these people wouldn't want to censor Discordians' swearing if they met in person.

But yeah, this is completely bullshit. I just had my ip blocked from viewing the forum and I wasn't even logged in! lawl



Amen, brother.

Mind if I re-post this on my blog?

Episkopos Cain said...

Not at all Hoopla, go right ahead.

Pirate Dan: what you say is true, often we dont play well with others anyway. But it seems, even if we try, we're damned from the start.

Mourning Star said...

Reposting. And I wasn't around when the Mystic Wicks thing went down. But I do know that I get a little annoyed with that whole "Discordianism isn't a real religion" bullshit too, or the "It's just a joke." line. Or the occasional attempt at granfaloonery "There's a goddess? So that means your a pagan!"

I think we need to destroy this place, their hypocrisy demands it, even a fundamentalist Christian forum won't outright ban you for being a LaVeyan Satanist, they'll try to help you first...

Moving along. Discordians and Pagan folks don't often get along, because we, for the most part, are capable of seeing them as the bullshit-infused attention whores that most of them are. Further we have no problem TELLING them just how full of shit we think they are.

If the admins at Spiritual NAZI were secure in themselves and their "Spirituality" or "Faith" they wouldn't need to take these steps. Problem is, just like x-tian priests and reverends, the most damaging lesson to be learned from a discordian or anyone else, is "Think for yourself, SCHMUCK!" If others on the forum start thinking for themselves instead of following the paths set down by Crowley and Gardner, those forums'll empty out quicker than Ted Kennedy's car when he offers to drive...

Do unto others, as will give you much lail. Jesus died on the cross for your lail...

Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the lail.

A nicer shade of red

Felix Faustus Nothus said...

Yea, "Irreligion" still means having a basic set of beliefs that you follow in order to make your life worthwhile.

In that regards, while I realise the PD to be a complete joke, it is more honest and makes more sense then any other religious text I've ever read.

Makoorakoo said...

Yo discordian dude. Im a member of the forum you talk about and I must say that not everyone on there is pagan. Personally I have nothing against discordianism and actually have looked up details on the faith. The problem is with discordianism is the religious theories could cause some of the lesser knnowlegable members towards discordianism some misunderstandings and would cause chaos. Spiritualforums is made for peace and harmony, even in language which discordianism would turn into discord. I personally dont take sides in the matter but most discordians that went to spiritualforums were causing distress to many members and were being incredibly ignorant of the rules. Now I hope that clears it up slightly, yet you seem to imply negative force on the forum staff. Yes sometimes the staff can be wrong yet we are all human (well most are). Tell ya what, im starting a spiritual type forum up soon with a little more freedom to members. I invite you to join if you will. If you are interested
e-mail or message me at superhollowskullman@msn.com.